ignition systems

[DANGEROUS TOOLS]

what is the opinion on like the msd ignition systems, or others for reliability of them any input would be great im shopping and don't know what i want.
thanks travis

[BEAST MASTER]

THE ONLY WAY TO GO IS MSD, NO TROUBLES EVER.

[Thomas]

You also need to consider whether you want to do digital or analog. I'd like to hear from some of the vets the pros and cons of both.

[n20]

We ran several of the basic 6al analog boxes with no problems. I have seen and heard of several of the digital 6 boxes with issues. I like the 7AL3 anlalog box. It will do just about everything you need for mud racing.

[MikeM]

I certainly wouldn't say MSD products are trouble free. They fail like anything else. And can cause a trouble shooting head ache.
Some products also may require knowledge that some may not know about. Like setting the timing with a MSD box.

Question is, what are you trying to do or gain from spending your hard earned cash on these products?
If you have a basically stock engine with a good working HEI type ignition, there may not be much to gain. Now if your stock HEI ign is all worn out, advance is all froze up and what have you. Then a new MSD will gain. Even a stock HEI puts out a lot of juice to the plugs. So unless your engine is making a lot more cylinder pressure than stock, your not going to notice any improvements due to an increase in spark power.

A new MSD ign system may band aid some things. Such as lack of tuning or maintenance on your existing system. Or trying to run too much octane through a low cylinder pressure engine.

As an old guy, my observations have been. Many fail to do the basic tune up stuff. Many like to tune by their calibrated ear. Many fail to check the simple stuff, like is my advance actually working. I see old worn out plug wires hanging on hot headers. No idea what the base timing is, let alone where the spark lead is at race rpm. Is there full battery voltage to the ign and a good ground.

That kind of stuff will bite people even with a shiny new MSD system. Sure the advance curve may be better than the old worn out stock one. But still folks aren't even checking the simple stuff. And MSD requires very good battery voltage and grounds. Throw it on there with wires twisted together. Time it with the calibrated ear. And call MSD's tech line because it pops and misses.

Now you start building an engine with increased cylinder pressures. Add nitrous, which increases cylinder pressure. You will find a need for more juice at the plugs.

If your looking for things like rpm controls, timing controls and such, it is time to upgrade.

I won't put a digital 6 on a lawnmower. Seen way to many issues with them.

Advantage of digital stuff is no need to buy the pills. Digital seems more expensive at first. Until you add in the price of the pills.

[DANGEROUS TOOLS]

im tearing ring gears out were running 13/1 comp 468 chev. the guy that built it has been setting everything.
why i ask is for the starting issues to back the timing off when starting,i change the plugs every 4 races, wires twice a season,cap rotor every year or any doubt i change them. my HEI dist works good i just want to retard the timing at startup. the motor is in the high 7s for horse its going back on the dyno this winter so i know the detials of where it likes timing ,carbsettings,etc so i know how to adjust for when it's in the truck.

[MikeM]

Some ign boxes and timing boxes do take timing out when cranking. My digital retard box did and I used the feature.

At 13-1 compression, you have an increase in cylinder pressure. So the extra juice would be a benefit. Certainly if you add nitrous.

I ran 565 CI, 13.5 compression, and locked out timing. I used a stock starter. After adding one item, I never had an issue with cranking or breaking parts. I added the support bracket to the back of the starter. Before that I would blow nose cones apart, break drives, and ruin ring gears. The design of the Chevy starter with the two bolts just won't hold the starter secure enough. The support bracket can be bought from GM. Or as I did, you can fab your own. This is true for small blocks as well as big blocks.

[DANGEROUS TOOLS]

we cut up an old starter and had a 3rd bolt welded to the casing, now we have 3 bolts holding the starter on with the bracket. the biggest prob i had the outer bolt hole broke (in the block) and was welded i dont thing it was lined up properly so we had to re drill it and thats when we put the third bolt in and has worked good so far.

[DANGEROUS TOOLS]

[quote="MikeM"]Some ign boxes and timing boxes do take timing out when cranking. My digital retard box did and I used the feature.

if i may ask what ign box set up are you running (i know some people get touchy about what they have because it is a secret) at least that is the way some of our super stock guys are.

[MikeM]

No secrets with me. I retired.
I ran a simple 6 box. And added a digital retard box for nitrous. But I don't feel I had enough ignition for the amount of spray. Not that it mattered. My last year I had my combination so messed up all I was doing was blowing the tires off and going no where fast. So more power would of just made things worse.

I would like to see a picture of that 3 bolt starter. If you are able to and ever get a chance.

[DANGEROUS TOOLS]

i will get a picture it worked great. when im done with my new race hauler well new to me it is a 79 international 59 pass bus shortened to pull my converted camper hauler. my girls really got into racing this year so i need room for them and thier friends i'll get picts soon on both.

[n20]

I hear of more people tearing up starters with the retard than without. I lock the distributor set base timing aprox 32 degrees [ will depend on your combo]. I ran up to 14.5 to 1 and had zero cranking problems.